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Rima (00:02):

Hello and welcome. My name is Rima and I started this podcast for two reasons really - One was simply because I wanted something that encouraged me to sit down over coffee, tea, wine, or whatever, and have a conversation. Although I'm aware of what's happening in everyone's life, thanks to social media, it can be months and sometimes years before I actually reconnect with certain individuals. So this was a way for me to enforce that commitment to myself personally. And the second reason I started this project (which is what I'm calling it ) is because everyone I know has something valuable to say based on their career or lifestyle or where they're at in life right now and I thought, why not share that? So this is about reconnecting with friends, meeting some new ones perhaps and sharing some insight along the way. Thanks for joining.

Rima (00:53):

Good morning. This is my first podcast, really excited, it may be a little bumpy since it is the first one. For my first guest, I'm sitting with my really good friend, Kim Butler and Kim and I, just to give you a little history, went to university together. We lived together for a couple of years at the university of Toronto. She was a science major, I was an English and history Major. So we were definitely headed in different directions each morning to get to class. But, um, we remained friends all these years. We won't talk about how many years. And, yeah, I'm really excited to have her with me today. And, maybe you can talk about what you do now for your career?

Kim (01:43):

Sure. I, after university, I went to chiropractic college and I am now a chiropractor that has been practicing for about 15 years and I co-own a wellness clinic or integrative health clinic called Fusion Chiropractic and Integrative health.

Rima (02:00):

Yeah. And, um, Fusion Chiropractic just for, um, anyone who's living in the city is right on the Danforth and I'll, I'll post the address and everything for where that is. Um, so I guess we'll get started with first question. So when you started in school, would you say you always had this mind to be a Chiropractor or to be a business owner? Because I know that when I started, I had this vision to be a journalist and obviously, you know, paths go in different directions and I ended up in marketing. So I don't know, I've had this vague memory of you maybe wanting to be a doctor at the time.

Kim (02:36):

Yeah, so I, actually, the reason why I went to UFT at Mississauga was because I had an interest in going to the forensic science program and that interested me because I always had an interest in law and science and it seemed like a good marriage of the two. And so I actually started university in forensic science with, I decided that that was not for me. Um, I looked at potentially either going to become a doctor in terms of a medical doctor, a dentist or chiropractor, or go into law school. And I never dream't that I would be a business owner. Right.

Rima (03:19):

I don't think anybody ever does. I don't know.

Kim (03:23):

Sure. I'm quite cut out for that. Although I've learned a couple of tricks along the way. Um, but when I finished school, I actually applied to law school and chiropractic. And I actually got into early acceptance into law school, um, moved home for the summer and almost didn't even show up to my interview at chiropractic college, but last minute, decided to show up and was really happy when I got in and just decided to go in that direction. Cool.

Rima (03:58):

Okay. Learn something new about your friends every day. Um, what would you say is the biggest concern that you see day- to-day with your clients?

Kim (04:10):

I'd say the common theme I see with clients or the biggest concern I see in clients is the lack of movement in their day. A lot of clients or patients will get up and sit down to commute to work and then sit in their office chair all day and then come home and sit down on the couch at night. So a real lack of movement that our body needs and requires, and stress is another huge concern. And I think both of those things mixed together to, um, provide issues, health issues within their lives.

Rima (04:44):

So you would say that stress, is a cause for a lot of physical, Physical, pain, I guess?

Kim (04:53):

It's very interesting how often I get a new patient in and they have an acute episode or something that's really new and painful and inflamed and they'll break down and say, this is the worst time for this to happen because I have XXX going on. And so, um, stress definitely does play a part in their health.

Rima (05:13):

So if there was, you know, three things or one thing, or however many you want to say, but, um, that you would recommend people do with their physical health, um, that would be positive, that would be a benefit to them to avoid, you know, ending up at your clinic. What would you say that would be?

Kim (05:37):

Movement? A hundred percent people do not move enough. Um, and a lot of that is even just natural movement. Sometimes people forget that going and sitting down on a, on an exercise equipment and lifting weights doesn't always replace natural movement and although exercise is a another one. Um, but just sometimes it sounds silly, but taking the stairs, you know, getting off the subway, stop, you know, two stops before your office building, going for a walk, uh, after you have dinner, just getting that natural movement in that our joints require exercise is another one. Um, I find that people when they're stressed and they kind of mistaken emotional type of, or mental fatigue for physical fatigue, not realizing that if they move their body and exercise, a lot of times that will help with some of the mental and physical fatigue, but it's like this block people have.

Rima (06:43):

And I guess, I mean, just from how our lifestyles are nowadays, we don't necessarily have to walk to school. We don't have to, you know, walk anywhere, really just get in a car and drive. And I know for me personally, one of the things that I've been doing is parking further away from wherever I have to get to just for that extra walk. But I feel like it was only the last couple of years that that started to be a priority for me. And probably by now it starts, it starts to get to be a little too late.

Kim (07:12):

I hear people say all the time that they're too tired, but I don't, it's not a physical tired. And when you more, you move the body and the more you exercise, the more energy you actually have and the better it is for your mental health. Um, and people just don't realize that because they're so weighted down with the demands of work and family life.

Rima (07:39):

And then, if there was something like, because we sit down so much by a computer or we sit in a car for so long, is there any advice, and maybe I'll have to take a video or something of this, but,

Rima (07:52):

Um, is there any

Rima (07:54):

Advice in terms of how you sit, how you walk?

Kim (07:57):

The one thing that we now know that is different from 15 years ago when I graduated is there is actually no perfect way of sitting in a chair for eight hours a day, because if you're in that sort of that, in your head, that perfect posture of your shoulders back and your back straight, if you do that all day, you're going to physically fatigue those muscles, right? So sometimes sitting slouch, sometimes putting your leg up, you know, sometimes standing at work provides a great, I think, a great opportunity for movement. So it's really just about shifting your position a lot. I like standing desks because they offer variety. I think we're silly to think you can go from sitting all day to standing all day and not have problems. But research shows that if you, you know, mix it up and, you know, maybe stand for between one and three hours a day in addition to sitting that can really help your body

Rima (08:56):

A lot. Okay. And so for parents, I mean, I'm guessing it's something similar where, you know, if you were to recommend to parents, something that they could do for their kids to help with their physical health or their posture, um, what would you say that is? I know that movement, number one, um, especially with the technology going on now, but is there...

Kim (09:19):

Just let them play. Let them play in a natural environment, let them play unstructured. Our kids are very structured these days and I'm a parent of three kids. And I understand the pitfalls that you fall into with structured activity and not all structured activity is bad, but there's just been a movement away from unstructured play and unstructured activity, you know, letting your kids go to the park and climb on the jungle gym. Like we, kids don't do that and we're so afraid of kids getting injured and keeping them in this box. But, and sometimes, you know, we, you've had children as I have. They do silly things like they turn around in circles and they, but the interesting thing,

Rima (10:04):

run around a living room and jump on each other. Yep.

Kim (10:07):

But the interesting thing about that is often times our brain will drive our behavior and our movement, and that might be something that your child needs to figure out. So although it doesn't make sense to you that they're spinning around on their head on the floor, it might make sense to them. And it might be something that their brain needs to figure out and we kind of don't allow kids

Rima (10:30):

To get crazy. Yeah.

Kim (10:33):

So basically allowing your kids biology to drive their movement and their behavior is sometimes the best way to let their bodies grow. I think we're a bit afraid of what that might look like. And does it fit with societal norms? I think a lot of the time we're just afraid of looking like bad parents.

Rima (10:56):

I think that's so true Kim, talking about how, sometimes we are so afraid of the judgment and there's just so much judgment on parents and just, you know, if our kids are acting a little crazy or running around and not, you know, really well behaved. We start to get nervous, but, but that's what kids do. And

Kim (11:16):

All animals, when you look at the young, they learn through play and our kids are no different and when they're wrestling, they're actually building core musculature. So sometimes we have to just allow them to play.

Rima (11:28):

Yeah. Okay. So, um, I guess now let's talk about you being a business owner and a successful chiropractor as well as a wife and a mother of three kids. So how do you do all of that? How do you give every area of your life attention and still make time for yourself? I mean, I feel like (Kim - "I don't sleep." Which is kind of true.)

Kim (12:00):

A female mother these days is very hard. My mother was a stay at home mother and an amazing mother and still is, and she's, I would say I do this because she is supportive of me and she helps me a lot, but I feel like as mothers these days, we are measured against the Pinterest, the stay at home mother. Um, but we are, we have a career and we juggle them both. And we're very hard on ourselves because we have to be the best at our career and we have to be the best at parenting and I struggle with that quite a bit. When I turned 40, I looked at what I had accomplished and I had, you know, three young kids and I had grown a business. We had grown from hanging up our sign 15 years ago to moving to a bigger clinic and having, you know, 20 in staff.

Kim (13:00):

And it was, I was very proud of that, that success, but what I really felt was missing was myself, taking time for myself. And I decided that the kids were getting a bit older and I was the only one that can do that for myself. So I think sometimes you have to put the focus back on you, it's okay to take time for yourself. I didn't really allow myself to do that before, but I think that doesn't make you less of a mother, I've started playing hockey. And I really enjoy that. And I do that two evenings a week and my kids come and watch now. And I feel like I am providing a good role model, especially to my daughters who see that you can be a parent and you can own a business and you can also do something for yourself because that's the life I want for them. And my son actually, who is watching, you know, his mother do that. And maybe those are the qualities that he would look for in a partner.

Rima (14:13):

So, you know, it's funny that you talk about, um, the judgment that we put on ourselves as mom, as mothers and, you know, being compared to, you know, a Pinterest mom or stay at home mom, or, you know, who's able to do it all, in quotations, but I myself work part-time now. And I, in a way I am a bit of a stay at home mom because I am, I am the one dropping off the kids and picking up the kids. And I, I work sort of inbetween all of that. And I personally feel that even with being at home, it's hard for me to find time for myself because there is this, I guess, in a way perception that if you are at home, then you should be doing all the work at home.

Kim (15:01):

I definitely think caregiving is an undervalued service and the demands and the mental fatigue on females these days is very high. I think we're, us generation X-ers, which I think we're called is this...

Kim (15:21):

You know, we're not, we're situated between the baby boomers and sort of the millennials. And, you know, we didn't grow up with internet. And a lot of us grew up with stay at home moms and a lot of our partners grew up with, stay at home moms and we were sold this idea that we can do and be everything. And the reality is, is that you can't and something's going to give, something's going to give and with mothers and females these days it's them that gives. And you have to make that time for yourself because no one's going to make it for you

Rima (16:03):

What woud you say to your 20 year old self if you were to look back today, you know, what would you say to the Kim that's cramming in her dorm room for her biology tests the next morning, um, you know, at UTM, what would you say to that girl? In terms of business and goals, if you were to talk to her...

Kim (16:24):

I would say to my 20 year old self to really enjoy the way I look in a bikini.

Rima (16:30):

Yeah. So what else would you say?

Kim (16:40):

I would say to keep cramming for my bio test, I always felt like I worked hard in university. I went to university and I held down when did two jobs. And it's interesting cause I have a plaque upstairs that I bought that says opportunity is missed by most people because it's dressed in overalls and looks like work. And I feel like I've gotten to where I am now because I worked really hard and that's been at a sacrifice. I, you know, if I could go back, I might, you know, take that trip to Greece that I didn't take because I was too afraid of taking that much time off at work.

Kim (17:19):

So there has to be a little bit,

Speaker 2 (17:21):

Bit of a balance, but overall I'd say keep cramming for that Bio test, study hard. I've always approached my schoolwork, even from a time as a young child. And that like sort of transferred its way into my growing my clinic and developing my practice is just giving everything 110%. And so I think I would tell my 20-year-old self to do that, but maybe just take a little bit more time to smell the roses.

Rima (17:55):

And I think for me, I would tell my 20 year old self kind of in line of what you're saying, that you're doing. Like you're, you're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing. Um, and you're on the right track of whatever that is and it doesn't, and it's not necessarily going to be exactly what you have planned out. And that's okay. Just like with you...

Kim (18:18):

Trust the process. Exactly. Trust the fact that when life throws you a roadblock, you weren't, you weren't meant to go down that road. Right.

Rima (18:26):

And that is part of the growth. Right. I feel like (Kim - and not be so critical) And that's hard. It's true. I mean, and that criticism just builds if you're not careful for sure. But, um, yeah. I think just trust that you know, it's okay. I feel like when I talk to a lot of younger people nowadays they have this very specific plan and vision in place and maybe we were the same way, but I do feel like, yeah, that's not life. And as you get older, like realize that

Kim (19:03):

Life throws you curve balls sometimes, and it might not be in your plan, but it might be better than your plan.

Rima (19:12):

Yeah. And just kind of trust in where you're at. Yeah. So do you have any advice for entrepreneurs or chiropractors who are just starting out in the industry?

Kim (19:25):

I would probably advise them to be patient. It takes a very long time to grow a practice. Growing a practice is weathering a lot of ups and downs, that it will always, if you give every patient 110%, if you work hard, if you care about your patients that will show and people will recognize that and your practice will grow. I think, especially in this age, we want results right away and, also to, you know, think of yourself as an educator for your patients to properly explain to them what's going on. A lot of times we forget that our knowledge is different than theirs. And sometimes...

Rima (20:12):

That's a good point because even going to a doctor, you feel that way sometimes where, you know, they're speaking to you about something, but you really don't quite understand the reasoning behind it or what they're talking about.

Kim (20:24):

Yeah. I realize that, you know, people don't understand that it's hard for your body, both your, you know, your health and your musculoskeletal health to sit in a chair all day. So you need to advise them on that and educate them about that and get them to lead a healthier lifestyle. But I would basically tell any chiropractor to be patient and, you know, put in their time and to also, you know, enjoy the patients. I'm quite lucky because I have patients I've been treating for a really long time and they're really important to me and I get to see them regularly and I get to follow their lives through getting married and having kids. And I feel really lucky to get, to have that much insight into that many people's lives. And I truly enjoy them as people. And so just, you know, it's not about making money, it's about, you know, providing care for your patients and just kind of letting that grow and maybe getting a part-time job to support yourself.

Rima (21:37):

So do you have any advice just in terms of starting a business? I mean, I think that a lot of people who go into, you know, whatever industry they're going into, don't have this plan of owning a business and worrying about payroll and worrying about, you know, HR and things like that. And I think that's a whole other department that actually could take away from what you do as a chiropractor. So any advice just in terms of managing that?

Kim (22:06):

So I think especially for healthcare providers, because we're trained at providing health care and not at running a business, what I would recommend is doing things right the first time. So when you're starting your business, get a good accountant, get a good bookkeeper, get a good lawyer. When we first started, we didn't want to put the money into that. And when we grew and we got to the point that we were a good size clinic, some of those lack of processes and lack of infrastructure in the business really kind of came back to bite us. And so I think that it does, sort of lay that foundation and then grow upon it. We sort of grew and then tried to impose a foundation after. And we went through some growing pains with that. Yeah.

Rima (23:01):

And I think a lot of people do do that because it's all a financial investment to do those things. And it's really hard to put that in at the start, but you, I guess you really do have to.

Kim (23:11):

And, and just do things right. You know, you gotta do things by the book and, um,

Rima (23:17):

Don't cut the corners. They'll catch up.

Kim (23:19):

Yeah. Don't cut the corners. And unfortunately you also have to be self-driven you have to learn, you know, a little bit of employment law. You have to learn a little bit about payroll. Yeah. So you kind of have to take that responsibility on.

Kim (23:41):

What would you say is the most challenging part about running a business?

Kim (23:49):

I think the most challenging part of running a business is managing staff. I think because everyone has a different managing style and everyone has a different managing style that they work well with. Um, and sometimes it's a notion of having to be a bit more assertive that you can't always be the friend. And I think that that's a bit more of a struggle for females because I feel like when a male boss is assertive, he's doing his job and he's being the boss, when a female is assertive, as being a rash, that's looked on as a different way. And I noticed that, especially in our earlier stages when I was a younger female, especially in having to manage staff that was a little bit older than I was or perhaps that they were the opposite gender than I was, I found that that was a little bit of a struggle in terms of management.

Rima (24:57):

So I guess a big part is finding the right staff as well. And that can be a challenge as well. Yeah. So just kind of...

Kim (25:06):

Especially in a small business environment where you don't have an HR department, where you, you know, you're going in on the weekends to hire people, you're doing that outside of your practice hours, outside of your, you know, running the business hours, it's a whole new thing.

Rima (25:22):

Yeah. So even just putting value on finding the right talent and realizing that that's going to take some time. So any last words Kim, about career and life?

Kim (25:40):

My famous last words, I guess if I had any last words there would be to work hard, but to also take time to enjoy life when you have young kids. I'm constantly catching myself, you know, instead of getting frustrated with the stage where they want me to come and lie in bed at night to appreciate that they want me to come and lie in bed at night and, yeah, work hard, but take time to see, life can be lots of fun and take time to find the fun things in life and appreciate, you know, sounds cheesy, but the beauty in life and to, yeah, just try to not be so hard on yourself because I think that's what I am constantly trying to do with myself.

Rima (26:36):

So, I do find that as we hit 40, um, (or pass it), you know, just starting to value, enjoying life and, and taking that time to enjoy it, you know?

Kim (26:56):

And I think it's about being realistic. Like realistically, you know, I know I'll never be five foot nine and a size zero. And you know, that doesn't bother me anymore. Like it's just kind of trying to look beyond what other people expect of you and try and just live the life that makes you happy, I guess.

Rima (27:23):

Yeah. and enjoying that even in the little things.

Rima (27:29):

Well, thank you for joining me on my first podcast and...

KIm (27:36):

I'm honored to be your first... guest.

Rima (27:39):

and thank you for everybody who was listening with us today. I guess that wraps it up and hopefully we'll do this again sometime. Thanks everyone. Have a good day.

Chatter and Laughs podcast © Rima Maamari [2020].

All rights reserved. Any unauthorized redistribution or reproduction of all or part of the contents of Chatter and Laughs, in any form, is strictly prohibited. The information contained in this podcast is for general information purposes only.  No representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, are being made regarding the completeness, accuracy, reliability, or suitability of the information

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